Earlier this month we reviewed “Glock: The Rise of America’s Gun“. This insightful book is an essential read for anyone who would consider themselves a fan of Glock pistols. It takes a deeper look at not just the history of the company, but the machinations that lead to their dominating two-thirds of the law enforcement market in the US. Recently, GlockingTall had the chance to interview the author, Paul Barrett, on a number of issues related to the company, gun rights advocacy, and his relationship with Massad Ayoob.
GT:
The bizarre Glock family feud that boiled over into the public eye since your book was published seems to be a battle for the future of the company. What do you think will be the ultimate outcome of this and how do you think this will ultimately affect the fate of Paul Jannuzzo?
PB:
It’s always perilous to make predictions like this. That said, I expect that at some point Gaston Glock, or his estate, will sell the company. the feud you refer to concerns who will share in the proceeds of this potential sale. The candidates include Helga Glock, Gaston’s first wife, the three adult children (Gaston Jr., Brigitte, and Robert), the newer Mrs. Glock, and the financiers who may (or may not) participate in this transaction. What seems clear to me is that Glock GMBH, the legendary handgun maker, will not be led and operated by someone named Glock once Gaston has left the scene. As for Paul Jannuzzo, I don’t see how the future control of the Glock companies will affect his fate. Jannuzzo, who has been convicted on criminal charges of financial fraud in Georgia state court, is unlikely to find future employment at Glock, even though he helped make the company what it is today.
GT:
What I was referring to with regards to Jannuzzo’s fate is that Robert Glock had tried to intervene in Januzzo’s case before the sentencing, basically corroborating Januzzo’s story about the loaner guns. If that is the case, it would knock down the racketeering charge and really put an odd twist on the whole case. A motion for a new trial has already been filed by Jannuzzo’s lawyers and is set to be heard on June 25th, 2012. I don’t expect Januzzo to go anywhere near that company again, but this sure does pull back the curtain a bit on what is already becoming a soap opera within the family.
PB:
Soap opera is certainly a fair term for these goings on.
GT:
I totally agree with you that the family control perishes with Gaston Glock. Does it make sense then, that once Mr. Glock passes that the concerned parties would move to take the company public, or cash out to a private equity firm and totally wash their hands of the business?
PB:
I predict the family will be out of the business once Gaston Glock is gone from the scene. The company would probably be worth more as a division of a larger arms company, rather than as a stand-alone corporation. Whether it passes through the hands of a private equity firm, who knows?
GT:
I drive by the Glock offices in Smyrna on my way to Hartsfield Jackson International Airport. It’s very obvious to even those driving by that there is a lot of growth happening with the company. Seeing as they currently hold two-thirds of the police market, and a significant portion of the consumer market; what do you think their next big growth segment is?
PB:
The potential for growth lies in new products. Gaston Glock has hesitated to apply his technology and brand name to a rifle. Likewise, Glock has never manufactured a .22 target pistol. I expect that new ownership will move in those directions. A police dept that issues Glock 9 mm or .40 caliber pistols would probably consider purchasing a Glock carbine. Likewise, a civilian who owns a Glock 9mm might well consider purchasing a Glock .22 to take advantage of less expensive ammunition. I’m not a businessman, but those seem like obvious opportunities to exploit the Glock reputation in new lines.
GT:
I see a lot of calls around the Internet for Glock to build a single-stack 9mm, or some other product that they don’t currently. Glock has definitely built up their reputation in the law enforcement market. I think that one of the main reasons we don’t see a Glock carbine is that the M-16 / AR-15 platform has been just as time-proven as the Glock. That being said, there is always room for innovation. I think that these new facilities will definitely help reduce the pipeline shortages that people have sporadically reported around the country. Glock R&D lately seems to be focused around migrating to the Gen 4 platform. Has Glock gotten themselves into a position where they build a product that is “too good to fail”, and they have to constantly find new means to compel their users (civilians and law enforcement) to upgrade? This seems to be the impetus behind the Gen 4 development, fro my perspective.
PB:
I don’t really have more to add on this. Your guess is as good as mine.
GT:
In my experience, I have seen just as many Glock haters as I have seen Glock fans within the community of gun owners. Why do you think these firearms are so polarizing? Is it a matter of envy, or is it an elitism against the fast-rising Glock?
PB:
You’ve identified at least a couple of the reasons for Glock resentment. Some American gun owners may feel a patriotic loyalty to the 1911. Others look down on the Glock as “ugly.” Yet another explanation may be that American consumers love to love (and hate) products. Mac vs. PC. Ford vs. Chevy. It’s an old American story.
GT:
After reading the book and perusing the source notes, you hit the mark in presenting both sides of the gun advocacy and anti-gun discussion. Has the research that you conducted in the writing of this book shifted your opinion from where you were when you began writing this book, has it give rise to an opinion that wasn’t previously there, or has it galvanized an existing opinion on this heated argument?
PB:
Writing this book reinforced my impression that diehard activists on both sides of the debate distort data to reach the conclusions they seek to reach. This work has also reinforced my view that attitudes toward firearms are largely symbolic. The question is less what guns do for people as a practical matter, but more what guns mean to people as a cultural and political symbol. For this reason, it’s difficult to get people to talk calmly about gun ownership and related matters. I consider myself an unusual case: I enjoy target shooting. I see the appeal of firearms. I have no problem with trained people keeping guns in their homes for whatever reason they choose, especially for self-protection and sporting purposes. But I also understand why many people are uncomfortable around guns. And I myself am uncomfortable when gun owners justify their attachment to firearms as a reflection of what might be called an “insurrectionist” tendency – the notion that government is an enemy and gun owners must be prepared to overthrow the government. I am uncomfortable with the “infidel” t-shirts and the ridiculous epithets tossed at our current President (“communist,” “fascist,” and all the rest). Extremists have a constitutional right to hold their extreme views. That does not mean that I feel comfortable about those views. When you mix firearms and implied violence with those views, I get very uncomfortable. Just one man’s opinion.
GT:
I think that your way of thinking is shared by more people than you might think. The main problem we’re facing is that political discourse in this country has been hijacked by the extremes. Anyone in the middle of the spectrum aren’t easily compartmentalized. I am pro-gun to the point where I also enjoy target shooting and keep multiple firearms for historical significance, family heirlooms, and home defense. At the same time, if the President is re-elected, I’m not going to make run on my local gun shop to stock up for the “liberal apocalypse”. Do you think that there is room in the conversation for a moderate voice, or is the discussion around gun rights always going to be dictated by the extremes?
PB:
I fear that professional fundraisers dominate the gun debate – on both sides. They are not interested in calm debate. The NRA wants to keep gun owners in a constant state of panic about imaginary “gun grabbers.” The anti-gun lobby has become irrelevant in the face of declining crime rates. I foresee a continuing loosening of gun restrictions to a point where we may risk more of these stand-your-ground type confrontations. I hope that does not come to pass. But I am worried about it. I favor moderation, live-and-let-live, and common sense. And gun safety. If you’re going to own one, know how and when to use it.
GT:
Massad Ayoob is arguably the most prominent voice in self-defense, training, and the legal issues surrounding the use of deadly force since Jeff Cooper. What Mas knows has filled many books and he continues to speak out on these issues. What did you take away from your time with him that didn’t make it into the book?
PB:
Mas and his companion Gail Pepin are friends of mine. They have been generous with their time and knowledge. Our warm relationship is a good illustration of how it is possible for people of good will to reach out across ideological and cultural lines. We agree to disagree about certain issues, and that does not prevent us from enjoying each other’s company. I respect their dedication to craft and their deep knowledge of firearms.
Do you agree or disagree with any of Paul’s points? As always, comments are open below for discussion.